Интервью с Ма Йога Вивек позже известной как Ма Прем Нирвано

Добавлено: Пт Авг 14, 2009 6:39 pm

Интервью с Ма Йога Вивек(позже известной как Ма Прем Нирвано)

Декабрь 17-ое, 1978 г.

Я чувствовала что это интервью имеет слишком большую ценность, чтобы оно было напечатано. Я хотела защитить цветок любви который я никогда раньше не ознала бы. Вивек подарила нам этот дар. Я изумлена, восхищенна, радостна из-за этого! Что я чувствовала когда она говорила , кристально серо-голубые глаза светились внезапной возможностью вечной любви. Это было что-то что я почувствовала, когда умер мой отец. Это было очень необычно.
Вивек дышала Бхагаваном, поэтому вы найдете его присутсвие здесь. Она была саньясинкой семь лет, и ее работа в ашраме состояла в опеке Бхагавана, занятии по приготовлению еды, медициной, связями, его библиотекой и пр. Она была одной из двух людей кто имел прямой доступ к Бхагавану в любое время, другая - Ма Йога Лакшми. Отношение между учителем и учеником очень интимны. Мы рассказываем только в соответсвии с вашей способностью воспринимать.

Интервью былов взято во время чаепития после полудня, в кухне где готовилась пища Бхагавану. Ма Йога Аста нарезала овощи, Ма Ананд Ниргун очищала бобы, а Вивек и я сидели на полу и попивая чай, интервью началось... Полный текст тут..

Перевод: Asanga, Ма Атмо Камаль

Добавлено: Пт Авг 14, 2009 11:42 pm

Gev
Хороший перевод!
На http://www.sannyasnews.com/ вообще много чего появляется стоящего, нашлись бы только теперь энтузиасты создать русскоязычную версию сайта новостей Ошо саньясы! Wink

Хочу спросить, можно ли перекопировать целиком эту публикацию о Ма Йога Вивек со ссылкой на http://forum.hari-katha.org/ Question

Добавлено: Сб Авг 15, 2009 9:44 pm

Большое спасибо, Gev, я когда первый раз прочитала ОШО не могла понять, как его можно доставать вопросами, я бы легла у его ног и молчала бы....
Но потом поняла благодаря этим людям он задержался, и я его нашла...

Cуддха: ( Я смотрю на Вивек с удивление – никаких путешествий, никаких проблем, никакой «работы»). Так ты не беспокоишься ни о просветлении, ни о чём подобном?

Ведь ОШО это всё.....

Добавлено: Сб Окт 24, 2009 2:24 pm

Добавлено: Сб Окт 24, 2009 6:00 pm

Ээээх

Я бы там пошуршала Exclamation

Слушай, Дхарма Махант, он в Намбурге на "празднике вишни" в 2003году не работал клоуном, ну вот одно лицо, помню, зараза, зажиматься лез. Very Happy

, еле отбилась.

Добавлено: Сб Окт 24, 2009 6:52 pm

lunaK

Цитата:

...он в Намбурге на "празднике вишни" в 2003году не работал клоуном, ну вот одно лицо...

Свами Анант и "клоуном"? Shocked

Сомневаюсь. Он для этого достаточно обеспеченный по европейским меркам человек. Cool

Ты зачем на radikal.ru фотографии эти выкладываешь? Если нужно сделать ссылку ссылковать прямо оттуда, где они изначально лежат.

Добавлено: Сб Окт 24, 2009 7:42 pm

Дхарма Махант писал(а):

Он для этого достаточно обеспеченный по европейским меркам человек

Это такой праздник, на котором переодеваются все и стар и млад, там большой карнавал, из польши и других городов приезжают актёры, кузнецы... и так далее.
И там мер города может изображать смерть, или ещё какого то персонажа, очень интересный праздник. Мои знакомые немцы, специально под этот праздник мне вызов сделали.

Дхарма Махант писал(а):

Ты зачем на radikal.ru фотографии эти выкладываешь? Если нужно сделать ссылку ссылковать прямо оттуда, где они изначально лежат.

Как это ?
Я уже смотрела эти фотографии, и ещё решила, жизнерадостные.
Особенно вот эта. Напоминает персонажа с мультика какого то.

Добавлено: Сб Окт 24, 2009 10:34 pm

lunaK

Цитата:

Как это ?
Я уже смотрела эти фотографии, и ещё решила, жизнерадостные.
Особенно вот эта...

Ну какой же это персонаж из мультика?! Shocked

Это мой добрый друг, с которым ездили в Джабалпур на 21 марта 2008 года - Свами Чайтанья Джагран из Литвы. Wink

http://oshoworld.ru/gallery/Fotoalbomy/Novoe_tysyacheletie_Osho_sanyasy_/Dzhabalpur___serdce_sanyasinskogo_mira_/page-1.html

Ошо сайт в Литве http://www.dhyan.eu/

Только кому надо эти фотографии на radikal.ru выкладывать?? И главное - зачем? Question

Добавлено: Сб Окт 24, 2009 11:26 pm

Дхарма Махант писал(а):

Ну какой же это персонаж из мультика?!

Ну что ты так всё воспринимаешь, Rolling Eyes

ну с Флинстоунов, так и кажется что сейчас закричит ЁБАДАБАДУУУУУ. Laughing

Дхарма Махант писал(а):

Только кому надо эти фотографии на radikal.ru выкладывать?? И главное - зачем?

Это вопрос ко мне ? Ну да, я через радикал обрабатываю, ещё в библиотеке нашла другую, но к ней ещё не привыкла, что это приступление какое то, а привыкла, когда в теме О музыке ссылку разместили, я ещё розу тогда перетащила.
Я понимаю, я не профи, но как могу Confused

И вообще, у меня компьютер ещё и года нет, я не заканчивала, всякие там киномотографические . ВОТ Exclamation

умнИК.

Добавлено: Сб Окт 24, 2009 11:37 pm

lunaK

Цитата:

у меня компьютер ещё и года нет, я не заканчивала, всякие там киномотографические

Фотографии очень просто ставятся на форум... не надо их никуда для этого "перетаскивать". Просто наводишь курсором на нужное фото, нажимаешь правую кнопку мыши... из появившейся таблички выбираешь самое нижнее - свойства. Копируешь оттуда адрес http://... фотографии, а далее вставляешь его в пост и обводишь значком [img][/img]

Добавлено: Сб Окт 24, 2009 11:50 pm

ХиХи

, ну скажи что со мной не соскучишься. Very Happy

Добавлено: Ср Янв 13, 2010 11:49 pm

Почему смерть компаньона Ошо, Nirvano (ранее Вивек), с тем замалчивается в 1989 году. What happened to her? Что с ней случилось?
http://www.sannyasnews.org/latest/archives/466

Перевод из саньяс-ньюз через автопереводчик. Очень интересное по этой теме рассуждение: http://translate.google.ru/translate?hl=ru&langpair=en%7cru&u=http://www.sannyas.net/

Добавлено: Чт Янв 14, 2010 5:41 pm

Вот я, не удивлю не чуточки, но что-то я с переводчиком не поняла. Confused

Добавлено: Чт Янв 14, 2010 6:06 pm

lunaK

Я даже целиком всё скоприрую оттуда, а то что-то действительно глючит, вчера можно было перевод читать, сейчас уже нет... Confused

Во избежание пропадания ценного оригинала, сохраним его для истории: Idea

Osho’s Companion - footnote in History
Posted on November 30th, 2009 by sannyasnews
Why was the death of Osho’s companion, Nirvano (previously Vivek) so hushed up in 1989. What happened to her? She had served Osho with great care over many years… Shantam Prem asks the question

I have just burn the candle near Osho´s photo as this text is pushing inside to come out.
I am aware that this is maybe going to put a few of our fellow travellers in embarrassing position and a few will treat me as a traitor too, but somehow life wants to release the demons under the cover up, so that angels of life could breath again.

Shiva and Parvati, Vishnu and Laxmi, Rama and Sita, Krishna and Radha; Gudiya and Rajneesh they are all part of the history we know.

Nirvano and Osho, they will not come in this category, but at the 20th death anniversary of Osho´s life long companion and disciple Ma Prem Nirvano, is it not worth while to know, what were the cause of her death and why she was cremated in the wee hours of night, when even an ordinary sannyasin, dying in the ashram during that time, was given a grand send off, typical death celebration, and for every small event press was informed with big press releases.

Most of the characters of that time are still alive and without doubt they cremated her without informing anybody to avoid any scandal and to protect the reputation of the master.

Why is human history so full with such false vanity. Things happen, depression is one of the most common diseases. Many people commit suicide because of this. Why not accept this with humility and dignity.

Why do we want to create a false aura around the Master of absolute Truth. When Osho himself has pulled the masks away from all the icons of History, it is unfair to Him and to existence to cover His life with dark Masks.

I request the people who know the truth to come forward and tell the story in its most honest form. We owe this to the spirit of TRUTH.

oshobob
I remember when i first came on this forum 6 months ago, and said,
“maybe Nirvano really didn’t die after all”
and frank fired back,
“yeah right, maybe Nirvano really didn’t die…
and Anthony’s really a ten-foot lizard.”
I remember that like it was yesterday…

amano
there are two thinghs i like to share about nirvano and her death.
first it was not a suicide because i saw her few days before in evening darshan and she was full of life and celebration…….and that make me beleive that she was in love with life and not want to take her life
second …..we have to find out who got benefit from death , who was profited by her death . that will help us to find murderer
love amano

Chetna
Shantam I have been wondering the same quite recently. I asked Narendsa Sw from Dheradun and his answer was a suicide. Another old sannyasin added with overdose of heroin and she was found in Jayeshe’s flat.
Another old sannyasin told me with confidence that she was killed before Osho himself was killed.
The story stinks either way, but I also feel we should know the truth whatever it is.
I also heard that Ma Neelam was given money to keep it quiet as she and other old sannyasins know the truth. That’s how she has built the ashram with new cash.
But all of the above are stories from others. How can I know the truth?

DaVinci
Lets hope we don’t have to wait too long for “The DaVinci Code” version of the Osho-Nirvano (Jesus-Magdalene?) truth…

Prem Abhay
There is only one way to come as close as possible to the truth. What is required is the appointment of a Truth, Justice, and Reconciliation Commission. The commission must be independent and have legally sanctioned investigative powers. It should also transparent in its progressive findings, and have the support of Osho’s people. The more time passes the less chance of knowing the truth, the less chance of calling those people that have committed crimes to account, and the more chance such people will have opportunity to cover up this truth. Unfortunately also is that the unfolding pattern of criminality and corruption is only invited to sustain itself if this process is not abruptly halted. I call on all Osho sannyasins to collectively request such an inquiry, and to collectively boycott the Osho Resort, OIF, and the Inner-Circle, until a complete and transparent investigation is complete. Let no more the ugly pattern of religious corruption cloud the mystic Osho.
Yahoo Abhay

Krish
Friends,
Our curiosiy may bring to some weired and unfounded coculsions without any proofs. Even Forensic laboratory can not prove the claims about Nirvano’s given high doses of killer drugs. Now even her asshes can not speak to Forensic Laboratory experts…
There was come controversy over the death of husband of Ma Sheela too. At that time osho was alive. But ultimately it did nothing to enhance or hamper the Osho’s work, or Resort and in the case of this… death of Nirvano… just we will have some waste of money over eqnuiry commision and some media glare will be there….
And why bring Sw.Narendrabodhisattva’s name now… when he has nothing to with Resort
In all police, public and politicians will clamor to defame, distort and discuss the ‘death of Nirvano and nothing much will be done.
Yahoo!

meera
Nirvano was the closest to Osho..
she was almost like his wife..
she knew that he is going to leave his body..
she was unable to bear the pain of him departing
she had no other friends..
no interest to cope with this violent people
who took over and banned all the residencies
she is already born again as osho told us…
and she has no more memory of her past life
she is chosen as the NEW WOMAN
she will lead the
new generation
into a GOLDEN FUTURE
with the help of the chosen few
into whom Osho dissolved

Anthony thompson
Ok. I will share what I have done as research about this woman, Vivek , Nirvano. The information i got is from her closest friends and former lovers.
Vivek was diagnosed with what was called maniac depression, or bipolar sindrome as it is called today. This information was not open and it was kept secret , but her friends knew about it.
This explained the strange changes of mood she suffered all the time.
People who lived with her in poona one house saw that all the time. This provoked some out bursts of anger from Osho`s side, as reported by teertha, who lived in the room above osho, and nirgún who worked in the kitchen.
It was reported to me that osho screamed at her a couple of times. Shunyo, deeksha, and teertha saw this.
She was Osho´s lover untill 1977, From that time on they stopped their love affair and she moved, on osho´s request, to date other people.
When Osho came back to Pune, He asked Anando to be his private secretary and care taker ,not Vivek( then nirvano).
This put a lot of suffering in her life. After all osho had been her only life motive for many years. She was resentful for her not being in the same position as before.
But osho was tired of her mood swings. althou she was medicated, she did not follow the treatment all the time.
She was depressed, and consecutively maniac many times. This is why it is hard for some people to understand what happened because they saw her in her manic phase.
She did not take her medication regularly, which made things worse.
She left the ashram for europe a couple of times , but finally came back.
Osho sent her to do the mystic rose ( she never did any therapy in the ashram) and osho thought this would be good for her, but she stayed with dark glasses on and at the back of the room , not interacting with the participants. This was reported to by Gavaksha, Brazilian sannyasin who did the group with her.
She was dating Jayesh at the time of her death.
No one knows for sure if she killed herself or took an overdose.
Osho, was very upset when he found out about her death and assumed it was suicide.
So, he instructed that no celelebration was to be done for her. and forbade Jayesh, her lover, to go see her in the ghats. Jayesh was very sad, but obeyed osho.
That is the most reliable information I have got. I have done cross cheking of stories and this is what remains.

frank
hi tony,
thanks for the stories.
i would like to know,also:
any idea who diagnosed her manic depression?
what was the medication?
was she on it for a long time?
who prescribed and supplied it?
was the overdose of the prescribed drug or another?
what of her family?
any still alive at the time,or now?
what did they think of the high speed burning?

frank
i wonder,also.
did she really have an ailment called “manic depression”
or did her life just burn her.
being a nobody,then being an enlightened man`s consort—-quite a celebrity status in that little world that seemed so big.
getting the rush of adoration on stage.
the stabs of the evil eye of envy,too.
arrested at gupoint ,chased around the world.
maybe worried at her lover or ex,but how does that work,ex-lover of enlightened guy who has relations mainly predicated on her status,with other “high-ups”
urggh sounds like an awful kind of celebrity trap.
his failing health,maybe self-inflicted..
his close associates supplying him with dangerous levels of medication,it would seem.
all the secrecy about her “mental health”,for the good of the reputation of the movement?
she had no life anywhere else,so trapped.
that could easily all be enough to drive pretty much anyone round the bend,
in this day and age,she may well have said:
!i`m a celebrity,get me out of here”

Swami Chaitanya Keerti
Chetna writes: “I also heard that Ma Neelam was given money to keep it quiet as she and other old sannyasins know the truth. That’s how she has built the ashram with new cash.”
I have been laughing whole day after reading this. Fiction and fictitiousness and creative or destructive imagination has no limits.
Shall I add something?
I imagine that after Osho gave the following words to be inscribed on his Samadhi–Never Born Never Died–she knew for sure that Osho was going to leave body very soon. She could not imagine herself continuing living after he is gone. And it was going to happen quite soon. She was very intuitive. She chose to commit suicide just before that ( something she would not have been able to see it ) . I heard also she was not too happy with the person she was living with (or dating as Anthony writes this).
Now some quotes mentioning Vivek:
Vivek again and again says to me, “I don’t want to live a single moment when you are gone.” And I say to her, “Don’t be worried. Even if you want to live, you will not be able to.” Just the other day, Deeksha was saying to Vivek, “Once Osho is gone, I am gone.” That is true.
The Book of Wisdom
Chapter #14

Look at Vivek, who has been with me longest — for fifteen years. When she first came, she was only twenty; now she is thirty-five. Almost half of her life she has been with me. And she has served me with an immense devotion, love, care, such that you can only find in ancient stories about women, not in reality. From the morning when I wake up, till at night when I go to sleep, she is running all around. She has no time of her own, every moment she is devoted. Just to serve me is her joy.
………………………………………………………………..

SOMEONE HAS DARED ME TO ASK YOU THIS IMPERTINENT QUESTION — WHAT DO YOU DO WITH VIVEK? ANYTHING I COULD POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND THROUGH TELLING?

Osho: IT will be difficult.
Vivek is so close to me that she is constantly on the cross. She has to be; it is difficult. To be so close to me is arduous. The more you are close to me, the more the responsibility. The more you are close to me, the more you have to transform yourself. The more you feel the unworthiness, the more you start feeling how to become more worthy — and the goal seems almost impossible. And I go on creating many situations. I have to create them because only through friction does integration happen. Only through harder and harder situations does one grow. Growth is not soft; growth is painful.
You ask me, “What do you do with Vivek?”
I am killing her slowly. That is the only way for her to get a totally new being, to be reborn. It is a cross to be with me, and hard is the task.

To be very close to me is to be on the cross. So Vivek has to do her homework, that’s all. That’s what I go on doing to her. Of course, she has to do more homework than ANY of you.
…………………..

BELOVED OSHO,
FOR SOME TIME NOW YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT YOU ARE OUR FRIEND AND WE ARE FRIENDS. I’M HAVING DIFFICULTY IN TRULY GETTING IT.
OSHO, TO ME YOU ARE MY MOST BELOVED MASTER. PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE I AM MISSING.

The question is from Vivek.
I can understand her difficulty.
The same will be the difficulty of all those who have come close to me, loved me, received me in their hearts as a master.
I have been saying that I am your friend, and you are my friend for a very strange reason that may not be obvious to you. There was another question from Milarepa — why are a few sannyasins feeling very resentful towards you, angry with you?
This has been an historical thing, that amongst disciples there are always a few who are accidental. The wind was blowing this way and they arrived. They saw a tremendous energy in the disciples, and they became greedy. But it was not a search for truth, it was not a search for love; it was simple greed. They also wanted to be spiritually powerful.
They became sannyasins, they became disciples, but the distance between me and them remained the same. They could never become my intimate people. They could never become my people. Even though they were with me, deep down they were resentful, angry. I wanted them to drop their resentfulness, to drop their anger. It was not my problem, it was their problem, and I wanted to help them in every possible way.
Vivek, you need not be worried about it. Those who love me, those who know me, know perfectly well that I am their master, and they have traveled a long way with me, in devotion and love. And of course, it is impossible for them at any moment — even if they become enlightened — to call me a friend. That will be simply ungratefulness.
Beyond Psychology
Chapter #24

frank
so keerti, you are saying it was a modern day instance of “sati” .
using pills instead of a fire. is that it?

oshobob
You guys need to take some courses in Crime Scene Investigation or just basic Historical Research Techniques.
First point:
There is absolutely no evidence whatsover that the pretty girl called Nirvano ever died. None. Zero. Nada.
other than some Swami Dickhead said this, or some Ma Beanbrain said that….
All these “sources” were and are nothing but Osho sannyasin propagandists — they will surely lie at the drop of a hat. Or they may look at it more like “just telling a story…what’s the harm…we’re doing it for Osho…”
To get to the truth of anything, the main point is always to go backwards, verifying the truth of the original source, not the outgrowths — everything gets flimsier and flimsier as you move out…

So,
First you have the girl Nirvano. Ok. Was she real? Looks like she was — photos taken, videos (though never an interview on video, oddly). Osho talks about her in discourse. Others know her and tell anecdotes. Seen on stage with Osho. Seems to be a real flesh and blood girl, who speaks English, is Osho’s companion, etc. Ok, so far, so good. The girl is real.
Second, Nirvano is reported by some inner sanctum disciples to have died and was burned at the ghats with a few people attending, on Dec. 1989.
Stop and freeze the movie here! True or false?
No need to go further with the branches, like, was the death murder or drug overdose or natural death? Or to the next step, was the drug overdose suicide or accidental? No need to mull over or entertain these thoughts, because the truth of the “death” itself has never been verified sufficiently, to warrant moving to the next level of investigation.

Verify the death first.
How is that done? Usually by a certified physician’s determination, with a signature and report. If there is any suspicion of something amiss, out of the ordinary, possibly criminal, then the police investigation and their report comes in. In India, in Pune, in 1989, you would have to find what the procedures for a death certificate to be issued are. And include the possibiliy of bhaksheesh and false reports too, that is important.
If you are relying on some sannaysins anecdotal evidence here on Nirvano’s “death”, and you progress from there, I would say you are wasting your time in an unsubstantiated landscape of never ending smokey horizons.
If you are convinced she did die, then go to the next level of how and why and where, etc.
If you are not convinced she died, then go to the next level of inquiry, and ask, why did the Osho people make up the story, and what happened to Nirvano, is she still alive, where, or did she die at some later date, etc.
These are the fundamentals of a fruitful search for the “Truth.” The truth of anything, for that matter.

frank
oshobob, if you think a piece of paper signed by the indian police is more evidence of the “truth” of anything,i suggest you have never had dealings with the indian police!
but you have a point the whole story is unbelieveably sketchy.
one thing that always amazed me was how the anti-osho media,in short,the media,didnt pick up on it at the time.the story would have been great for them,even if,as you suggest,she wasnt dead.

frank
and btw,excuse me for my less than polite introduction to you at badass news 6 months previously.
i trust you have not been too traumatised.
but nevertheless,i am bound to say that,in a betting shop,i will still put my money on her being dead and tony not being a ten foot lizard!

oshobob
no,no frank,
i wasn’t traumatized at all by your remark 6 months ago, i enjoyed it, quite appropriate in a way…
you actually proved to be “spot on”, as the Brits say, about TonyZ, the rappin’ prof — quite accurate, even though probably not intended:
To wit:
Anthony does resemble a 12-foot lizard after all…
1. he is prone to the horizontal position whenever possible, as in his preferred psychotheraputic paridigm of post-session chilling out with his patients (female).
2. Has big eyes like a lizard (to soak in research info), and is known to hang out in the open sun in visible locations (also to aid in his research).
3. If you grab at Anthony and try to catch hold of him, he slithers away into the rocks of the Chilean mountains faster than a scalded dog, or a lizard on the run.
4. Though Tony makes a show of his intellectuality, atavistically speaking he is quite a macho animal, in the true Latino sense. The lizard goes back a long, long way in zoological evolution, and so do latinos.
So, if I went to the betting window, I would take the opposite route to you frank — I would put all my money on Tony being a 12 lizard, and none at all on Nirvano dying on December 9, 1989.

oshobob
and dealings with the Indian Police, the Pune police, you’re right, I’ve had none. Never even been to India. That’s why I put in that remark about taking into account false police reports and baksheesh…
That skepticism also hold true for a doctor’s sign-off on a death too — could be bought, or forged, etc…
I would say, in regard to Nirvano’s case, the only way to approach any truth on the matter is to hear something from someone that you absolutely trust to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth –and was present to all or some of the actual events.
Not an easy set of criterion to fulfill, for sure.

oshobob
and to why the media — anti, neutral, or pro Osho — didn’t pick up on the story…. Was it ever reported to the media? That is, in the time frame that it “happened” ? Osho’s event a month later, of course took precedence and was THE story.

Anthony thompson
My friend Oshobob… You are to “The da vinci code” what meera is to “Harry potter”.
I love all these different versions of events. From her never existing or dying in your story; to her being born as the new woman who will save the planet, in meera´s.
I am afraid that reality seems to be much less exiting… from what I have been able to pick up…
Although my being a big lizard reminds me of “the doors”… a group I used to like…

Swami Chaitanya Keerti
(so keerti, you are saying it was a modern day instance of “sati” .
using pills instead of a fire. is that it?)
Frankly speaking, some times you do get it right, while the in-depth research done by Anthony does not let him get it right. His research is not in-search, only in-tellect, no in-tuition. He does not have any access to Akashic records where there’s everything.
Enjoy the Bull-sit

garimo
Frankly speaking, some times you do get it right, while the in-depth research done by Anthony does not let him get it right. His research is not in-search, only in-tellect, no in-tuition. He does not have any access to Akashic records where there’s everything.
Enjoy the Bull-sit

Frankly Keerti, I totally agree that research is not “in-search, intellect, or intuition”.
Do the Akashic records say research should be anything other than research?

Swami Chaitanya Keerti
Garimo, You should contact Ma Anando who is the medium for such records. I used to be her medium a decade ago. I am not that glorius any more.
Keerti and Garimo have the same meaning–The Glory.

garimo // Dec 1, 2009 at 7:08 am
Hmmm,
I thought Anando was Osho’s medium… No?
I’d think Kaveesha would have been more in touch with the Akashic records.

My name letter says something close to Glory. It says garimo means splendor. So I had to *research* and learn what splendor was… and learned it’s the flash of reflected light off of something shiny. That reflection of light is the splendor of the object.

You seem to have dodged my question. Are you thinking research should be something other than research? Are you preferring options for observation be restricted to words that start with the letter “i”?

frank
english 20th century girls who take a lot of pills comitting sati on the quiet?
the “akashik records” ?
an ” i am glorious,you are just in-tellect” attitude?
bloody hell,keerti,you sound like some kind of hard-line hindu harry potter or some kind of delhi lama mumbling oracle straight out of lobsang rampa.
you are right,man
sometimes i do get it right.

frank
oshobob, i guess our imaginary betting shop owner will have to get his odds from the akashic records.
and everyone knows that they are fixed by mysterious men with beards………………
altho`,to be fair,bob, it turns out that tony has been in his room the whole time playing air guitar to the doors and singing:
“i am the lizard king
i can do anything……”
so maybe you are right after all…..

Swami Chaitanya Keerti
Beloved Frank and Garimo
Thanks for correcting me, Good heaven!.
I am in-glorious now. or is it un-glorious?
I am not Hindu or Lama though
I do have friends who are Hindus–and they are not hard-line. I do have a friend Daal–Lama.
Anando was declared Medium of Osho which she never accepted in public. You could check the Akashik Records. I used to tell her to “meet the press as you are Osho’s medium”, and she wud reply: Keerti, you are my medium. you talk to them.

frank
those were the days,eh?
you were a bigshot,then.
now you`re just another guy guzzling his tarka dhal.
you could call your place osho dhaba……

Dilruba
One more Koan : When Vivek / Nirvano was in her last week of Mystic Rose .. the day before she died .. after she attended the discourse .. while returning to Lau tzu house .. Osho stopped his car near Krishna House .. as Vivek (she was living in Krishna house at that time ) was standing there & Osho then whispered something in Vivek’s ears .. that was their last meeting .. this was told by Hansa Maa ( disciple of 40+ yrs) to me in ‘92

meera
Vivek spent most of her life with Osho..
there was nothing left for her to live for..
but her mission was not completed
she had to go through the door marked death..
to get a totally new life
this time she is an ordinary girl..
with an extraordinary power ..
of great love an sensitivity…
she enjoys all
what ordinary girls enjoy..
being part of this life
with all its ups and downs..
and finally become a leader
to those lost souls
suffering in
SAMSARA

meera
´THE FUTURE BELONGS TO THE WOMEN ´OSHO
remember… ?!

Anthony thompson
this is what i call harry potter… now lets listen to Dan brown bob…

shantam prem
Truth is the first and last casuality, when search of truth turns into an organised religion.
Organsing the world is the main occupation of the westen intelligentia. Wihouth them transportaion and flood management will not happen, great cites would not have taken shape.
See, with how much minimum effort they have organised the Churchless church around Osho.
I hope and every day hope, the innocent western heart which is less corrupted than Indian heart, will say shut up the mind running the Osho show.
Without hesitation, i will say there are less cup boards with skeltons around Osho than any other organisation with such vgreat potential and magnitude.

I heard also she was not too happy with the person she was living with (or dating as Anthony writes this).
Is there a single woman on the earth, who was or is happy while living or dating this man.
Power, handsomeness is quite a big attraction but emotional intelligence; the man and the team around him lack utterly.
Just for fun open in google, ” Air Man Water woman”, there will be thousands of astrol pages on this topic.
Those who are interested in Kabala of nos. it is an interesting coincidence that three prominent woman around Osho share the same date of birth. 19th March 1949
Nirvano’s date of birth is written on the stone at the pyramid at the main ashram.
Sheela’s i came to know from her, while doing her astrology and as i have heard most probably Neelam also has the same date of birth.
May be keerti cam correct me, if is wrong, the way he corrected Chetna for the rumour.
I love gossips and stories, true and fictional and littel bit of rumour too.
Neelam got money in 2000 to shut up after the event happened 11 years before, this is for me the rumour of the year.

Anthony thompson
Guys. really… life is far more boring. The woman apparently died or killed herself because she felt displaced, excluded…

oshobob
Anthony, your perception is a somewhat cocked, skewed, and inaccurate…
Your Dan Brown similarity should be attached to the Osho sannyasin public relations team, not to me. They are the ones making up the half truth/half fiction stories (Brown’s MO) and feeding them to the public.
I am a freelance outsider neutral observer separating the truth from fiction in their story. If you compare me to anyone, it should be to Ma Sangeet, the Osho sannyasin who wrote the book “Beyond the Da Vinci Code,” where she does just that with Dan Brown’s pseudo-true conspiracy bestseller. She separates the chaff from the wheat in the D.B’s “Jesus had a baby” yarn, and does a thorough job of it too.
Dan Brown creates conspiracy stories. I expose them.

Anthony thompson
Oshobob. You are the one who creates conspiracy… or at least think so.
We are not talking about a story that happened 2000 years ago. This is very recent. why don´t you find out for yourself?
Write to anando, write to shunyo, write to Jayesh, write to amrito, write to rafia, write to nirgun, write to teertha,etc. All their mails are of public domain. they appear in the groups they advertise.
ask your questions. it is not such a hard job.
I did it.
and then draw your conclusions… there is a lot of people you can ask… and then cross check stories. If you are too lazy to google them. write to my own mail athompsonphd@hotmail.com
and I will send you their personal mails.

frank
the conspiracy here was one of cover up and silence.
no doubt for the highest motives of preserving the transmission of osho`s message of truth.
it is said osho forbade jayesh to go to the ghats.
good move from a cover up point of view.
the body was taken down to the ghats and burned presumably by indian nationals to avoid extra attention.
white faces could have caused more alarm.
they would not have carried the body on a traditional bier,but in a motor vehicle giving it a more gangland feel.
the indians could blag,baksheesh and lean on the baba at the temple there,possibly some argument,maybe they had to remind him about his correct place in the akashik records……
and deal with any accidental visitors who stumbled by…
the ghats are quiet place,especially at night,too scary for most locals except the odd low life,and some pye dogs-so few probs there.
i picture the scene,not at all boring,tony.
like a wierd ritual of aghori babas…..
excitement,fear,subterfuge,life and death in your face…
imagine the look in the eyes of the people involved,you could catch a glimpse of them in the flickering flames of the pyre…….
some would have had that strange calm feeling you get in a car crash,some a lot more edgy….
smell of burning flesh, kerosine,explosion of the head
and at the end,what a strange feeling of a job well done…..
just obeying orders.
probably none of them knowing anything about the true details of the story they were destroying for ever…….

oshobob
tony writes, “Write to anando, write to shunyo, write to Jayesh, write to amrito, write to rafia, write to nirgun, write to teertha,etc. All their mails are of public domain.”
but tony, these are the conspirators of the Nirvano story.
They show no sign of ending it, why would they expose their own hoax. That would be dumb of them–duh!
just put all of their personal emails on your next post — seems like a lot of people here would like a direct line to Jayesh, Amrito, and the rest…
As to conspiracy, by definition, you need to “conspire” with others to have a conspiracy. You can’t do it alone — then no one could say, “E tu, Brute?”
Who does oshobob conspire with? I work alone. You just can’t conspire alone. Simple fact.

oshobob
frank, you create a very convincing scene there at the Indian burning ghats. A picture through words. A modern-day haiku.
but then again, so does Ron Howard, the director of “The Da Vinci Code” and “Angels and Demons”, the two Dan Brown books he turned into movies. Create convincing scenes, that is.
In the DVD’s he actually shows how he creates the “story-boards” of the films — in “Angels and Demons” they even recreated the Sistine Chapel in a backlot set in Culver City.
Still, no concrete evidence has been produced as of yet by anyone to justify the story of Ma Nirvano dying and being cremated on December 9, 1989. Nothing.

frank
unfortunately,bob,this fact of “no concrete evidence” is the proof and sine qua non of a job well done.

i heard people saying in early the early 90s that they both had staged it and escaped to live on a remote south sea island.
also,i remember someone said:
“he`s done a jesus”
meaning that he had legged it to kashmir to chill in the hills.
if only.

Anthony thompson
Oshobob. Nirgun, rafia, shunyo and teertha conspirators?
man two of them were not even there at the time. they can tell you vivek story.
If you do not trust anando, amrito and jayesh… the ok. Get the mails of the other people living in lao tzu house at the time…

prem bubbie
I’ve been sitting back and reading all the Bullshit that’s being posted here. First I get slammed for bringing up the past and spreading rumors, and second, getting personal about it. I also bring up the [point that we need a truth and reconciliation commission similar to the South African version, that we all come clean; I get slammed by that fraud Oshobob, notice in his comments that he liked me at first but didn’t later,-following the herd Bob? That my rumors are unsubstantiated, well pal i did my best to get the truth- sure, unless you see these things1st hand, it’s all second hand and someone could be pulling one’s leg. Yet here these same assholes are spread rumors and are not held accountable. Even more rumors are being spread, a bunch of bored old ladies!!! You people are sickening, you spread rumors yet you criticize others when they call you on it. Shantam prem I owe you and others NOTHING!!!!! Who the fuck are you? Prem Abhay has it right, was he copying me? Who cares!!! He gets the point! The rest of you are losers!!! No wonder the sannyas community keeps failing!!! Whatever projects they get going, it usually falls flat on it’s face. Anand, you’re a joke, with no life!! Garimo, keep selling that stinking soap, it smells as bad as it’s creator. Oshobob, are you the government agent? You can’t even make up your mind about anything!! A true douche bag!!! The rest of you also have no lives, addicted to the internet and desperate to fill that empty void called the brain. Just read what’s being posted on here–Nirvano’s dead, , now who’s stuck in the past? Who’s spread unsubstantiated rumors? Jack ASSES!!!

Gossip Queens run Amok!!!!

oshobob
now, now, now, bubbie…you’re getting tangled in a tizzy, and frazzled in a froth… just settle down now boy, and cool off…easy does it son, easy does it….

garimo
Running amok, sometimes referred to as simply amok[1] (also spelled amuck or amuk), is derived from the Malay/Indonesian/Filipino word amuk, meaning “mad with rage” (uncontrollable rage). The verb form is mengamuk.

Anand
Prem Bubbie the government agent fascist-anti-sannyas warrior from Seattle is back! Still has not digested his turkey from Thanksgiving.
Prem Bubbie aka Bully his back from Thanksgiving with Mammi. He needs some attentions, so he throws another tantrum! Oh my, we are so afraid of you Bubbie
ex CiA- anti sannyas leader……

oshobob
Maybe Professor Thompson can come in and deal with this situation. Tony?
What would you do as a group leader down there in Chile if you had a guy like bubbie come into the group and start ‘mengamuking’ all over the place like this.? What would your theraputic strategy be?
If someone called 911 emergency police here in the States, they would probably come fully prepared with a Swat Team, crisis psychologists, trauma doctors, and a good supply of high-powered rifle tranquilizer darts — enough to take down a crazed rhinoserous running amuk down Main Street in Metropolis, USA.
Unless they knew he was on the same team, then they would just apprehend him quickly and take him to the local police bar hangout and have a few drinks, a few laughs, and rehash the “event” that they all just designed and executed.

Anthony thompson
I am not much into conspiracy. But there is one interesting factor related to bubbie. He brings up the same points as abhay. They both want a truth and reconciliation stuff… strange. and bubbie says abhay has got it… strange.
Perhaps prem bubbie is abhay in the maniac phase of the personality disorder. and abhay is harri om in the reflexive mood of the personality disorder. or bubbie is able to channel meera and abhay…
and this all thing is about water sanitation, democracy and oshobuddhism… why not?

meera
bubbie
you have no glimpse of the MYSTERY called LIFE
one comes back over and over again
until you GOT IT … until you leave this horizontal plane..
and follow into the UNKNOWN ….
you represent the unconsious rational mind…
you have no wisdom of your own…
never dived deep into yourself
you cling to the ways of the world..
the logical.. which sratches only on the surface

why you bubbie
don´t leave your Metropolis
and do some adventour travelling..
what keeps you glued to this insane society
full of diseases.. ?
do you have family to look after
who are dependent in you?
sitting back there and freaking out won´t help..
it takes guts to move on…
instead of fighting with yourself

whatch here … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6P42XI8GRo

shantam prem
Guys. really… life is far more boring. The woman apparently died or killed herself because she felt displaced, excluded…
This is not just an ordinary woman,
More or less, Marrie Magedelina from the world of Osho.
And than al these meditative techniques, esoteric stuff, where were these reiki masters, Shamanic healers.?
On the other side, when big dreams unfold, colateral damage is unavoidable. As a Chilian Tony must be aware about this.
And one should not forget during that time Osho himself has mentioned he was sleeping around 22 hours every day, this sleep is possible only through medication.
The point is Master asa human being became the prisoner of His own disciple’s mind trips.

Dilruba
Yes Shantam if it wasnt for these Doctor disciples .. Osho would still be alive

shantam prem
Truth and reconcilation commison!!!!
when people read too much newspapers, they can use any term for any situation.
common sense requires that we use the relevant legal term for any crime of offence, not just any thing.
even buthers use particular knives for particular parts.
If we accept the fact something is sick in our collective system, solutions are not difficult, and if as Long time Osho people we are unable to find a amicable solution for a transparent and honest organisation, we Let His teachings fail and waste our time and other people’s energy too.

shantam prem
“Yes Shantam if it wasnt for these Doctor disciples .. Osho would still be alive.”
After Osho, Osho movement is getting the same dose from the same team of Doctors.

Even blinds can see how the health of the main organisation is shrinking,

Truth and reconcilation commison!!!!
No No No
Simple common sense requires that one group of people drop their sweeping powers over the present and future of Osho movement and share the all around expansion in collabration with their counter parts.
There is no need to create in India, Pakistan kind of regime.
Solutions from Osho’s words, harmony between mind and heart and when it is a question of doubt, heart gets the upper hand.
Heart in connection of Osho does not mean, burning candles, crying before his photo for a new relations, making the pledges that if that particular wish is fullfilled i will do three weeks of samadhi meditation.
Heart means, treating the others with fairness, and allowing the other pieces of puzzle to fit together.
Great mystic’s paths are not built with cement and steal but with love and motivation.
Pyramids of energy of His people coming from all over the globe, merger of new and old, sufis and Zen, if i am allowed to say…Pussy lickers and ass fuckers, nobody is against anybody……where on earth we can get such a liberal master….
We don’t need to bow before a dead , i agree. But the power of the throabing vision, makes my head simply fall.

oshobob
If I remember correctly, Ma Shunyo’s book, “My Diamond Days With Osho”, came out in 1990, right after Osho’s “leaving the body,” and she includes a chapter on Ma Nirvano’s “death,” and also one on Osho’s “leaving the body.” I bought it and read it when it came out.
Shunyo (aka Chetna) was close to both of these people it seems, so her book and “recollections” of the events have significant merit of some kind — if not for absolute truth, then at least for the perspectitve that she was destined to project.

it’s true bubbs, that i agreed with you on some points, that is, letting the truth come out. i’m still in agreement with that impetus.
but your motivation looks more political and revenge oriented than theraputic.
your ‘truth and reconciliation commision” has more a feel of a tribunal kangaroo court bent on projecting the Osho world as a den of criminals, than a project for cleaning the space and clearing the ground to make way for a better world.
it reminds me of Chaiman Mao’s strategy in the Cultural Revolution of asking everyone to come clean, and “let a hundred flowers bloom, let a thousand thoughts contend.” They came out, and Mao quickly identified his internal opponents, and humiliated and destroyed them publicly as enemies of the revolution.
We wouldn’t want to repeat that kind of history now would we bubbs?

meera
here the words of one of Osho´s enlightened disciples
he is originally a dutch and ahs a big buddhafield in Germany…
Existence at play - the revelation
(Excerpt from „You are much more happy without you“)
The one who has received the divine plan has to walk alone, to carry out the revelation. This
revelation is self supporting, complete in itself. Serving the fourth way, to work day and night to
play the role of the playmaster of the fourth way.
Existence sends the people, constant sharing is the universal law of the play. The divine plan
always goes further, always expanding, now into this dimension. Never tried, never happened
before. A new synthesis is happening, the fourth way takes a leap, the days of Tantra have come
to merge with the fourth way. A new dimension is happening.
This is the only potential - powerful enough in our days to ignite people - to create the New
Man - the foundation for enlightened rebellion to flower. The only hope for the future of
humanity. Cosmic fire to evaporate the water, so that it can rain love and compassion all over
this planet. To wake up the one spirit, the non-dividable, giving water and light that it can grow
into a new spiritual dimension, ready to take the quantum leap into higher consciousness on this
earth.
Thus speaks the divine plan and carries out the divine play simultaneously.

Anand
well, what’s his name, meera — the enlightened Osho disciple?

Meera, Keerti - Osho has made clear that we cannot use his words as a dogma.
So to everything he has said, he has said the opposite too. So why not stick to your own opinions and let go of the silly habit to fill empty space with cc from Osho’s digital catalog.

Oshobob: you are still trying to talk sense to Osho Bubbie. Just drop it. He is an anti sannyas fascist , hating sannyasins from his gut. Stuck in 1986 in Seattle, probably associated with some US anti Osho government program!

Miss Marple
What if a quarrel between lovers went sour, somebody hit her on the head and then they had to get rid off the body quick.
If you ask me, this is the logical conclusion of this case.

And PS: I did not have to consult the Akashic records to arrive at this conclusion.

oshobob
well, OK, Anand, maybe you’re right there, but then you can’t call him “Osho Bubbie”, that would be way off then.
Maybe a typo on your part….

oshobob
I agree with Anand on that large “copy and paste” habit that some here are prone too. Maybe that would be OK for anyone that’s never read Osho before, as an introduction to him, but the posters here are all somewhat grizzled vets of the long and winding road with Osho’s talks. To use an extended Osho quote to bolster your own personal viewpoint is rather heavy-handed, I think. I myself never read any of them. An appropos sentence, or phrase, is OK, embedded in your own thoughts — that seems more natural.

meera
you people seem to be totally unconscious..
these words are not from Osho
but from an enlightenend Oshosannyasin
check on http://www.buddhahill.de

oshobob
meera, you call those words of an enlightened Osho disciple…this Pan guy?…sounds like some sort of warmed-over new age blah-blah…ok, boyz, time to come out and blast ‘im, …frank, he’s got a Turkish fez on and the obligatory retro Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band cover Beatles wild colors get-up, ala the Osho Dhara trio, ….come on, let’s get back in form here at Sockumnews, and start swingin’…Maitreya Ishwarea took his lumps, Raja got whacked, Osho Dhara Trimurti took their licks, this Pan deserves no less, I would assume….
“Cosmic fire to evaporate the water, so that it can rain love and compassion all over….
oh my god….gimme a break pal.

Anand
Yes Oshobob, it was a typo…Prem Bubbie aka Bully.

Anthony thompson
“Yes Shantam if it wasnt for these Doctor disciples .. Osho would still be alive.”
shanti bhadra thought the same. that is why she tried killing dr. amrito…

amano
each time , i try to take part in discussing here anything, i got hit by you guys. you like to codemmeded me either way, no matter what i write . you are all into cutting other person who try to be honest

meera
THE MASTER IS A MAGNETIC PULL
WHENEVER SOMEONE GOES TO A BUDDHA OR TO A KRISHNA, suddenly his energy feels a change of climate because of such a powerful source. The moment you move near, you are magnetized.
NO ONE IS MAGNETIZING YOU, no one is trying anything — just the presence. You may feel that someone has hypnotized you. No one is hypnotizing you. BUT THE PRESENCE OF A BUDDHA — whose energy has become formless, gone to the source, and who is centered at his source — the very presence is hypnotizing. IT BECOMES CHARISMATIC.
BUDDHA BECAME ENLIGHTENED. Before his enlightenment he had five disciples, they were ascetics. And when Buddha himself was a great ascetic, torturing his body in many, many ways — inventing new and more sadistic techniques to torture himself, those five were his ardent followers.
Then Buddha felt that this was wholly, absolutely absurd. JUST BY TORTURING ONE’S BODY, ONE IS NOT GOING TO REALIZE ONESELF. When he realized this, he left ascetic ways. Those five followers left him immediately. They said, “You have fallen down. You are no more an ascetic.” They left him.
WHEN BUDDHA BECAME ENLIGHTENED, the first idea that came to his mind was about those five followers. Once they were his followers, so he must go to them. He felt a duty — HE MUST FIND THEM AND TELL THEM WHAT HE HAS FOUND. So he searched for them, and he traveled in Bihar, from Bodhgaya to Benares, just to find them. They were at Sarnath. Buddha never came back to Benares again, never came back to Sarnath again, because he came only for those five disciples.
HE CAME TO SARNATH. It was evening time, the sun was setting, and those five ascetics were sitting on a hillock. They saw Buddha coming, so they said, “That fallen Gautam Buddha, that Gautam Siddharth who has fallen from the path, is coming. We must not pay any respect to him. We should not pay to him even ordinary respect.”
So they closed their eyes. BUDDHA CAME NEARER AND NEARER, AND THOSE FIVE ASCETICS BEGAN TO FEEL A CHANGE — a change of their mind. They became uneasy.
WHEN BUDDHA JUST REACHED NEAR, suddenly all the five opened their eyes and fell at the feet of Buddha. Buddha said, “But why are you doing this? Because you decided not to give any respect to me, so why you are doing this?”
They said, “WE ARE NOT DOING, IT IS HAPPENING. What have you gained? You have become a magnetic force, we are just being pulled. What are you doing to us? Have you hypnotized us?”
Buddha said, “No! I have done nothing to you, but something has happened in me. All the energies have fallen to the source, so WHEREVER I MOVE, SUDDENLY A MAGNETIC FORCE IS FELT.”
That is why those who are against Buddha or Mahavir go on saying for centuries that, “That man was not good, he was hypnotizing people.” No one is hypnotizing. You become hypnotized — that is another thing. WHEN YOUR ENERGY FALLS BACK TO THE ORIGINAL SOURCE, YOU BECOME A MAGNETIC CENTER.
OSHO
Vigyan Bhairav Tantra
Vol 1, Ch #16: Beyond the sin of unconsciousness

shantam prem
“Yes Shantam if it wasnt for these Doctor disciples .. Osho would still be alive.”
shanti bhadra thought the same. that is why she tried killing dr. amrito…
Anthony i really don’t know but personality disorders of famous sannyasins are a subject of its own.
There palace politics and more over INTOLERANCE..
now when the daddy is gone up in the sky, elder brothers are unsure what to do with the other orpahns.

shantam prem
Amano, Join the discussion, not just discussion but winds of change, with your total honesty and learn to hit back, not because it is a joy to hit back but many times out of self defence…
Power in the hands of sane people is a blessing for all, same is about Osho’s vision.
psychopaths reading Osho also feel the effect instantly, cancer stays pain disappears, scary face hides behind 100% Pashmina shawl.

Meera,
what is stopping you to join the commune at buddhahill?
And please don’t paste too much Osho discourses…they loose the shine when like children’s soap bubbles they are thrown on all the passer byes.
People are educated and in search, everybody can find the relevant points, what one is looking for.

shantam prem
Anthony this news may be is of your interest.
The wild life and life of us sannyasins!!!
The battles are unfailingly barbaric, and almost always fought to the death.
In a rare glimpse of a reality that wildlife photography rarely shows, this stark series of images illustrates how brutal life can be for the animals we might only see in a zoo.
From the ferocity of Siberian tigers grappling in the snow, to the disturbing sight of a hippo falling victim to a pride of lions, these are kind of confrontations that animals face daily in the wild.
Enlarge
Fight to the death: Bald eagles attack one another in mid-air over the dramatic Alaskan landscape
Taken by famed wildlife photographer Steve Bloom, the images also demonstrate what happens when members of the same species engage in a battle for supremacy.
Among the incredible images in his ‘Conflit’ series, two Bald Eagles fight for airspace above Alaska, elephants in Botswana clash tusks in the dust, and snarling polar bears fight for dominance.
Enlarge Clashing tusks: Two African elephants fight for supremacy in Savuti, Botswana
Bloom, 56, who is most famous for his images of swimming elephants and stallions crashing through the surf, concedes that the images in the portfolio lay bare the reality of life in the animals’ natural habitat.
More…White gators - the rarest creatures in the world - found in swamp land
‘People often have a sentimental view of wildlife and they have this idealistic view, but animals are experiencing the same sort of stresses that we experience, but in a different way,’ he said.
‘They are constantly trying to deal with killing and finding food and avoiding being killed and eaten. That is the overriding preoccupation along with reproducing and trying to stay alive.
‘There is a huge amount of conflict and a huge amount of stress.’
He admitted that being a spectator to that could be both thrilling and distressing, and that he often struggled with the dilemma of whether to intervene, or to simply stand back and let nature take its course.
In any case, it seems, the law of the jungle will prevail

frank
that wildlife guy should check out the vicious and unsentimental wasteland that is badass news.
never mind the bald eagles
has he felt the full force of our bald psychotherapist?
he`s really scary.
and the merciless attacks of “prides” of gurus on one`s very sense of self?
see the jackasses tear each others egos to shreds…..
not a sight for the faint-hearted.
indian elephants stampeding helpless hippies with osho quotes…ouch.
the screetch of the goa eagle,now confined in a cage in germany–aaargghh….
the cries of pain as people`s dogma gets run over by their karma….
tricked by coyotes
laughed at by hyenas
grizzled by bare-faced bears……
its a wild wild life…..
maybe more than a man or woman could bear

Shanti
hello again guys.
Nirvano´s death was shock to all of us. She was close to a close friend of mine and I knew she was not happy at the end. My friend told me of her moodswings and how she coul be loving and very fiery.
I think it was in ´89 that she checked to a psychiatric ward in England, but left very soon. My friend told me she was always talking about wanting to die.
In the lasts months she was very solitary and did not want to see anybody.
She even left to australia to start over… but came back.
Was she was burned. My friend was there and couple of her closest. Her boyfriend jayesh was not there.which was strange.
Amiyo was there, so was shunyo who i think actually lit the fire.
For us , we just did not know what to make out of it. Probably she committed suicide.

oshobob
So, what was your close friend’s name who was a witness to all of this, Shanti?

Shanti
Her name was purnesh

oshobob
there you have it Shantam
in the lead article here
you are asking for those that were there
and knew the truth of this incident
to come forward and come clean

they have not yet
but Shanti and me have named some names
of possible source material:
Ma Shunyo
Ma Purnesh
Amiyo
Sw. Jayesh

Contact them and see if they want to contribute to the expose.
Prof Anthony says some of the emails are public domain, though he doesn’t give them out, but i think Shunyo can be contacted via Osho Miasto Center in Italy, through their website contact page.
other than going back to these prime sources (and believing what they say), we are just spinning our wheels in rumors, second and third hand accounts, gossip, opinions, conjectures, etc.

frank
to quote sherlock holmes:
“it is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data”
i have spent a fair amount of time in hindu burning grounds
and unlike christian churchyards for example,
they are not the kind of places that evoke the word “data”
,i would conjecture that the “truth”here,bar any dramatic deathbed confessions or suchlike is
gone gone gone beyond……

oshobob
and meera, that guy peter pan, who you are advertising here as an enlightened Osho sannyasin…he looks like a drug dealer to me, the kind of a guy I used to see at rock festivals in the early ’70’s selling grass and blotter acid. and the stuff he says sounds like a lot of reheated vacuous mush. Are you serious girl? Cut me some slack, ok? You’d really have to stretch it to go for the PanMan. What next? Pot? Pots and Pans? What will you cook, what’s for dinner here on the Osho Sannyasin Smorgasbord of wacked-out avatars…?

frank
but i think that there is one clear fact on which anyone,no matter on what side of the story they are, would agree:
that,for the consort of an enlightened man,surrounded by and in relation to doctors,psychotherapists and major players in the movement,to commit suicide whilst doing supposedly therapeutic practices invented by and prescribed by the leader,could never be construed as good publicity.

bob,i think the word you are looking for is “avatard”

oshobob
true enough frank, on that bad PR fallout from a suicide death of Nirvano, no doubt about it…
but your quote from Sherlock brings up a very important point that plays into every story like this…
Sir Conan Doyle, the British author who created the fictional detective Sherlock Holmes, developed the model of the Rational Man searching for ‘hard data’ to solve his cases. But Doyle himself had leanings toward the opposite — he was known in his time as a man quite infatuated with esoteric things like seances, ghosts, channeling, etc. In vogue in England amongst his social group at the time.
Across the pond in the US, there was another man, Harry Houdini, who cut his career on fooling the public with well rehearsed magic and escape performances. But he, in his real life, was opposed to what he considered the frauds of the “dead speaking” in dimly lit rooms to a gullible audience. And spoke out vehemently against it, exposing it.
Houdini and Conan Doyle spent a good amount of time thrashing each other in the press over this. But the odd thing to me is, their stances were the exact flip-side of their publicly created heroic figures–Holmes for Doyle, and Houdini for Eric Weiss (his real name).
This happens all the time with people — projecting a public demeanor that is the exact antithesis of their private reality. Buddha is the wandering beggar who actually is a princely lord. The oppressed ‘little man’ becomes the SS Officer. The scholarly girl becomes a prostitute. The frightened skinny boy muscles up with steroids and turns into the bulging body-builder.
I would assume that sannyasins are not immune to this syndrome. Maybe Sheela is really a cupcake, not the tough mama that people make her out to be. Maybe Jayesh is not a business hot-shot leader of the resort that he’s projected to be. He could be just a guy that likes to dance, play the tuba in his spare time, and be an unknown boy-next-door.
Or, another way to put it is, what you see in the street level boutique is usually not the reality of the city inner-workings.

Добавлено: Чт Янв 14, 2010 6:21 pm

Мдя ...

И чё теперь Question

Добавлено: Чт Янв 14, 2010 6:24 pm

Ну, можешь попытаться зарядить в какой-нибудь автопереводчик... Laughing

Тема этой продожлительной дискуссии не из самых ароматных. Crying or Very sad

Добавлено: Чт Янв 14, 2010 6:54 pm

Дхарма Махант писал(а):

Ну, можешь попытаться зарядить в какой-нибудь автопереводчик.

Я так и знала, что ты не добрый..
И найду Exclamation

И переведу Exclamation

но не сейчас....

Добавлено: Чт Янв 14, 2010 7:16 pm

lunaK

Цитата:

Я так и знала, что ты не добрый..
И найду И переведу
но не сейчас....

Открою тайну:
- Это такой же трёп ни о чём, как и 90% того, что пишется на нашем форуме, но только ЭТО на английском языке. Laughing

Так что переводи, обязательно. Exclamation

В кратце:
Это история о замолчанных подробностях смерти Ма Прем Нирваны (Вивек), которую и пытаются разбирать спустя более чем 20-и лет, после уже свершившегося факта (между прочим, за 20 лет вырастает новое поколение).

Говоря языком рунета:
"В сети есть толпа людей, которая рвётся пообсуждать какую-нибудь занудную, но предельно провокационную говнохрень. Говнохрень должна быть относительно примитивной, и желательно не больше полутора абзацев. Практически всегда она содержит средней тяжести или тяжелый экспрессивный оттенок, бросающийся в глаза. Главный закон успешной говнохрени - сделать так, чтобы даже самый устойчивый начал слегка ёрзать от желания высказать свое мнение". Shocked

Добавлено: Чт Янв 14, 2010 8:07 pm

Понятно... Confused

Честно говоря, мне на такое время жалко терять.
Я вообще пытаюсь не читать, даже хорошие отзывы о ОШО.
К примеру "Шуньо- алмазные дни с ОШО" мне было интересно до того момента, где она описывала свой путь к нему, и он был похож на мой, те же переживания, потом стал стухать интерес, так как, она описывала великую любовь к ОШО, не понимая, что для него это не главное, они просто многие подсели на него, и я их понимаю. Но и печально осознавать, что находясь рядом с таким мастером столько лет, для себя так ни чего и не понять.
Они искренне отдавали свои жизни ему, и это их выбор, но ведь ОШО не это надо было.
А то что, столько лет пытаются докопаться спал ОШО с кем то или нет, это тоже не трудно было предвидеть, да и он знал, только наблюдая, это уже с определённого уровня, от этого просто скучно.
Даже если и имел с кем-то связь, это уже другой уровень. А то есть- не секс, а познание, с другим уровнем осознания. Уровни меняются и всё меняется, и получается так, что всё по новому лобать.
И то секс так примитивен, перед тем, что таким людям открывается, что и силы тратить не хочется. А людей этих понять можно, они тоже должны пройти этот путь тявканья, и облизывания костей.

Добавлено: Чт Янв 14, 2010 10:15 pm

"it was not a suicide because i saw her few days before in evening darshan and she was full of life and celebration".

"Это не было самоубийство, потому что я видел ее за несколько дней до этого на вечернем даршане, и она была полна жизни и празднования".

Согласна. Это подтверждает и Ма Прем Шуньо. Думаю, даже если бы Нирвано вдруг одолела депрессия, она бы обратилась за помощью к Ошо.

Только я не понимаю, почему эту статью и последующее обсуждение людей докопаться до сути ты, Махант, называешь "говнохренью". Вероятность этого есть - в чем проблемы?